The 2017 film The Three Christs of Ypsilanti tells the story of a psychiatrist at a mental hospital in Ypsilanti, Michigan in the 1950’s. Three patients diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia claim to be Jesus Christ. One of the patients, known as Joseph, claims to remember events from the life of Jesus, including his execution by crucifixion.
If Joseph claim to remember events such as the Miracle of the Loaves and the Fishes and Wedding Feast at Cana, according to the memory view, isn’t Joesph the same person as Jesus Christ? Is this a problem? If so, is this problem decisive or is there any way to fix the problem (and adapt the memory view)?
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ReplyDeleteIn this situation, Joseph is not the same person as Jesus Christ because he has been diagnosed with schizophrenia which is known to alter ones brain behavior and actions and also memory making people think they remember things that they actually do not. The memory view says for example, S and P are the same person if, and only if, S remembers the experiences of P, however there are circumstances such as your parents repeatedly telling you a story about you as a child, eventually you will start imagining that memory and believing it and possibly believing that you may actually remember it when it really is just the imagination of remembering something. This is similar to what is happening to Joseph- he is imagining that he remembers being Jesus Christ but is also oblivious of its untruth because of his mental disorder. Because of this mental disorder, there is no way of proving these memories true. A solution could be making the distinction between real and fake memories and prove that Joseph's memories are in fact untrue. One way to find this distinction could be to draw it back to personal identity, however you need to remember experiences(memories) to prove your personal identity, and you need a personal identity to prove those memories but unfortunately, this comes full circle and each relates and depends on the other meaning there is no proof or way of distinction in that sense. If sameness of memory is necessary and sufficient for sameness of people then there needs to be a method or way of proving the memories that people claim as their evidence of personal identity and a further distinction between memory, and imagination.
DeleteJoseph is not the same as Jesus Christ even though he claims to remember his experiences. This is not true because Joseph suffers from schizophrenia. That means he feels and thinks things that are not really happening to him. Because of his mental condition, he experiences many out of body situations that have not actually happened to him. This is a problem because his mental condition is affecting his real memories and the memories he thinks he has. This also goes to question the entire memory view as it does not take into account those who are mentally ill. The definition that we came up with in-class talks about two people being the same if and only if they shared the same experiences. This poses a challenge as Joseph claims to share experiences with Jesus Christ. He does not really recall the life of Jesus or any of those main points. His mental illness has caused him to think that. The memory view needs to be adapted so that those with mental illness can fit into it.
ReplyDeleteThis proves that not all memories are valid. Nobody can directly tell Joseph that he did not share experiences with Jesus Christ. Everyone just knows that he did not, because he is a mentally ill patient named Joseph, not Jesus Christ. There are many mental illnesses that make people think and feel things that are not actually happening. Like I said before, the memory view does not take this into account. I do not think there is a way to "fix this problem" because Joseph is not going to believe that he is just Joseph and not Jesus Christ. There has to be a distinction made between real memories and fake memories.
The memory view is an invalid argument because there is no way to verify if someone actually remembers the memories of the person they claim to be, therefore, Joseph cannot use the memory view to claim he is Jesus Christ. The memory view argues that if person "S" (the original being) and person "P" (another person) can only be the same if person P actually remembers the thoughts, feelings, and experiences of person S. Under this basic definition, Joseph would indeed be Jesus Christ. However, the biggest issue with the memory view is that there is no feasible way to prove that person P actually remembers the experiences of person S, especially if person P is a reincarnation of person S years and years after their existence. Memories are able to be manipulated by the mind and by others. Therefore, there needs to be other people, ideally other people who knew person S well, who can verify that the person P are the same as person S. Although one could argue that the memories of those who remember person S could be changed and manipulated as well, the collective recollection of a group of people is ultimately more trustworthy than the recollection of a single person. If multiple people can talk to person P and determine that they have the same memories as person S, then the two beings are the same. For example, if I die and someone else claims to be me, my friends and family should be able to verify the memories of this other person to determine if they are me or not. However, in the case with Joseph and Jesus Christ, there is no one alive who knew Jesus Christ that would be able to verify these memories. Since there is no way to verify this argument, even with proof as abstract as the verification of others, the argument has no grounds. Memories are malleable, and it is not wise to use them as a basis of self-identity and identification. Joseph could indeed be Jesus Christ, but there is no way to verify his claim using the memory view.
ReplyDeleteJoseph is not actually Jesus Christ, although he seems to remember the events of his life, because he did not actually experience these things. The memory view requires not only memory but memory that is accurate to the events that actually happened to the person who is remembering them. The statement that personal identity is determined by the validity of one's memories, and that one's experiences (which constitute their personal identity) define their memories, is circular. A more logical distinction between someone who actually remembers and someone who seems to remember is that "...real memory is apparent memory that was caused in the appropriate way by the past..." (Perry 31). This logic constitutes that the person who really remembers an event has to be the same person who experienced it. This argument does not resolve the question of whether, if a brain could be duplicated exactly, the person with that brain could actually remember the experiences of the person with the original brain, or if they would merely be seeming to remember. Given the description of actual memory as memory caused in the "appropriate way'', the person with the duplicate brain would not actually be remembering the experiences of the original brained-individual, because they did not physically experience these events. However, because the chemistry and composition of these two brains are identical, one could also argue that the duplicate brained-person could accurately remember the experiences of the original person because the brain is shaped by experience. The answer to this question lies in whether one believes the physical body or one's experiences are more essential to the concept of personal identity.
ReplyDeleteNo, Joseph is not Jesus Christ. According to the memory view, if someone has the same memories as someone else, they are the same. Though Joseph claims to remember being Jesus, he is not Jesus, for two reasons.
ReplyDeleteFirst, his memories are illegitimate.
A legitimate memory is one that someone physically experienced, is verifiable by others, or has physical evidence supporting its existence.
Joseph’s memories meet none of these burdens. Joseph was not alive during Jesus’s lifetime; thus, it is unlikely that he experienced events like the Wedding Feast at Cana in person. Similarly, because he was not alive during Jesus’s lifetime, other individuals cannot verify his memories. Last, because he was not alive during Jesus’s lifetime, there is no physical evidence, like an archeological site, for example, that proves he experienced the Wedding at Cana.
Second, even if his memories were legitimate in the sense that there was sizable evidence proving his presence at the wedding, there is a distinction between genuinely remembering something and seeming to remember. Seeming to remember something does not mean they experienced it. The distinction is that the person with false memory cannot have a legitimate memory because they are not the individual who initially experienced it.
Instead, Joseph’s memories are likely fabricated. Schizophrenia is a mental illness that creates faulty perception and thus causes individuals to believe false memories. Thus it is more likely in this instance, because Joseph has schizophrenia, that his memories are based on faulty delusions.
In the case of The Three Christs of Ypsilanti, Joseph can not identify himself as Jesus Christ due to the fact that he has schizophrenia and he seems to remember events from Jesus' life but cannot prove that he is the one who has experienced them. Schizophrenia is a psychological disorder that affects one's ability to accurately perceive reality as it is and one of the side effects of it is it can cause a person to act irrationally because they are experiencing delusions and hallucinations (or events that are not concurrent with reality). In addition to impairing one’s reality, the disorder also affects the memory of a person and creates false memories based on the false reality that people with schizophrenia are experiencing. So, in the case of Joseph (since he is schizophrenic), he believes that he is Jesus because the delusions that he is experiencing are giving him a false reality about remembering experiences from Jesus life (which may not have been accurate to the actual experience that Jesus had).
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the memory view, theoretically Joseph could have been Jesus. The memory view states that “S and P are the same person if and only if S remembers the experiences of P.” Joseph claimed that he remembers various events from Jesus' life like the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes and the Wedding Feast at Cana and therefore shared memories with Jesus. However, he only seems to remember them, meaning that he not only cannot prove that he’s the one who remembered these experiences but also that he experienced the experiences. In the article “Personal Identity” by Derek Parfit, he uses the term “Q-Memory” to describe one of the flaws in the memory view and a similar situation to that of the case of Joseph. He states, “If I knew that I could q-remember other people’s experiences, these beliefs would come to me in a more guarded form: for example, “Someone-probably I-did that.” I might have to work out who it was.” (Parfit 16) In essence, Parfit is saying that if you were “q-remembering” another person’s experience, you would have a hard time distinguishing who actually experienced that “q-memory”. Therefore, Joseph is not Jesus.
Joseph, a schizophrenic patient, claims to be Jesus Christ because of the memory view. The memory view defines that A and B are the same person if and only if A remembers the experiences of B. Even though Joseph claims to remember events from Jesus Christs’ life, he cannot be the same person as Jesus Christ because schizophrenia effects the way people perceive events. Joseph perceives all of his memories as real because he believes he is experiencing them, but not all of his memories can be real because his condition affects the way he thinks. With an altered ability to think, Joseph will perceive experiences differently than they actually occurred. For example, a friend without schizophrenia told Joseph about his trip to Italy. When asked about Joseph’s friend’s trip by the psychiatrist at the mental hospital, Joseph explains that he had a great time in Italy with his friend, but the psychiatrist knows this event perceived by Joseph cannot be real because Joseph was in the mental hospital. The trip explained by the friend and told to Joseph is what actually occurred, but because of the schizophrenia, when Joseph speaks to the psychiatrist he believes he experienced the event. This shows schizophrenia falsifies memories because patients perceive events and experiences differently than how they actually occurred. The very real memories and experiences perceived by the schizophrenic patients seem authentic and true, but to the outside world, the memories and experiences are tainted because of their condition. Therefore, if Joseph was not schizophrenic he could be Jesus Christ because of the memory view. However, Joseph’s condition alters his perspective thus invalidating memories and experiences, so Joseph cannot be Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteOne problem with the memory view is that no one can prove the validity of what someone claims to be a memory. This presents a big problem, especially with people who have a mental illness interfering with their memories, like schizophrenia. In The Three Christ of Ypsilanti, three schizophrenia patients claim to be Jesus Christ and one in particular, Joseph, claims to have his memories. What Joseph perhaps perceives to be his memories are false due to his schizophrenia, but this case brings up the possibility of people lying about memories or simply believing they possess certain memories due to a mental illness or problem. When dealing with the memory view, one would need to have a distinction between real memories and fake memories to account for cases like Joseph’s; However when attempting to create a distinction between true memories and false memories, the theory no longer works as it defines sameness of person with sameness of memories. This reasoning creates a circular logic needing memories to define identity, while defining identity with memories. Also with no proof that someone actually possess these memories or their memories have not been manipulated with, there is no way to determine what real memories are and what are not. In conclusion, the memory theory stating that S and P are the same person over time if and only if S remembers the experiences of P is not a valid one because it allows for several situations in which this is just not true.
ReplyDeleteoseph's claim that he remembers the life of Jesus Christ as his own is a clear example of not truly remembering an event but simply being convinced that he has. Although the memory view shows that he is Jesus Christ, there must be a distinction between 'real' and 'fake' memories. His diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia can be a pointed to for why he is so convinced they are real memories. If questioned on the events that he seems to remember, it will more than likely be the case that his memories only go as far as events he read about in the bible or other religious works. He would be missing pieces from what he hadn't read or been taught about. Even if this is not the case, it can easily be concluded that he simply extrapolated and imagined the others.
ReplyDeleteBecause memories are created in response to experiences over time, memories follow a linear path. One's birthday marks the beginning and one's death day marks the end. Anything that happens before or after is logically impossible to remember. Seeing as Joseph was alive in the 1950's when the film was released, he could not have possibly experienced the events in Jesus' life two millennia earlier.
Joseph's situation is similar to that of someone who suffered from hallucinations due to lack of sleep. After going to sleep for a sufficient time, the person no longer experiences these hallucinations but remembers them clearly. They understand that they were not real despite vehemently believing so at the time.
The memory view can be adjusted to exclude memories born of a mental illness, physical afflictions, or other reasons for remembering things that they do not truly remember.
In this case, no, Joseph is not Jesus. The memory view would be an unsuitable argument to use in this case, because although Joseph says he remembers instances from his past life, they are all physical moments. If he was Jesus Joseph would be able to recall the whole life of Jesus, and certain important points in his life, but this is not the case. The memory view definition states that one person could be the same as another if they shared the same experiences. Joseph did not experience the same moments as Jesus. Unfortunately, Joseph has no way of proving that he really was at those specific moments in time, therefore he does not share sameness in experiences as Jesus. It would be different if someone knew Joseph then and was able to defend his case, but no one has evidence that he ever existed in another life. This point is somewhat like the Soul View, you could state that everyone has a soul and never dies, but u cannot prove that the soul even exists. In addition, Joseph’s mental illness does not help the fact that he is not Jesus. His mental illness causes Joseph to think and feels things that are not real. Which would cause Joseph to believe that he was a well know person such as Jesus Christ. In conclusion, the memory view would not be a valid argument for Joseph to use in order to prove that he is Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, Joseph believes that he is Jesus because he can recall moments of Jesus’ life in details, though he can recall some memories of Jesus the memory view does not work. We know that Joseph is in a metal hospital suffering from schizophrenia, that disease is causes the mind to make up situations and memories that are out of touch of reality. Therefore, Josephs memories of being Jesus doesn’t make him Jesus, because his brain is creating those memories from common knowledge. No one alive today were at events during Jesus’ life, and most known moments of his life are told through the bible in detail. For example Jesus’ execution, most people know that Jesus was nailed to a cross and left to die. It is possible that Joseph’s brain is creating memories with the common knowledge and details of Jesus’ life. Considering Joseph’s state of mind, it invalidates his “memories” of being Jesus. If he could recall moments of Jesus’ life that were not told through the bible, we could not determine if he was Jesus or not. For all we know he could possibly make up scenarios and connect them to being Jesus. There is not a way for us to prove that Jesus is now in the body of Joseph. Also recalling a couple moments in Jesus’ life cannot make Joseph Jesus, unless he could remember most moments of the life of Jesus. The memory could not work in this case taking account that we cannot validate any memories that he recalls. With the combination of Joseph having schizophrenia and not being able to prove that Jesus is in Joseph’s body, Joseph is not Jesus and the memory view cannot prove that he is.
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